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Dogs Diet

Post by Warley on Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:33 pm

Whilst doing a bit of research for my canine studies course I've come across a very interesting article about dog food. Apparently there has been tests carried out that indicate a high protein diet can help increase a dogs nervousness and aggression. Any dog food with a 22% or higher protein content can do this. This now makes Archie my little guinea pig. At the moment we feed him Eukanuba - mainly because of the protein content and the fact that it is cheaper to feed him that than pedigree chum or bakers. When following the guidelines on the back of the packet Archie was going through 10kg of pedigree chum per week as a puppy because the main ingredient is cerials. With Eukanuba, because meat is the main ingredient, 15kg was lasting him 4 weeks - so even though it was more expensive it lasted him longer. We've continued with Eukanuba without any problems but after reading the article I'm dying to see if there is a change in his behaviour with a low protein food. Ive been looking into it and we've decided to try Burns. In the article it says the best protein content for dogs with fear aggression problems is 18% to 20%. Burns is 18.5% which is a bit of a difference from the 23% in Eukanuba. We are going to switch him onto this Burns food in the next couple of weeks or so (when he's finished this bag of Eukanuba) and see if there is any difference.

I shall keep you posted. Very Happy
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my thoughts on high protein diets

Post by sindii on Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:42 pm

Hey, thought i'd post on this as my first post. It's an interesting thing regarding protein, i'd like to post my own thoughts

There is no real 'true' evidence of this actually, even if some small studies do show this, as some dogs may just have turned up as showing so in some studies by chance. Nothing in protein would actually affect behaviour affected by the brain ( or the proteins in the brain) such as nervousness unlike things like high sugar which can cause hyper behaviour and increase behaviours such as aggression. Dogs like all carnivores are meat eaters and nearly all their diets are made up of protein. Humans have treated likes omnivores and their stomachs have responded over the centuries but diets high in cereals and carbs actually aren't too good for dogs and any slight benefits it may do for behaviour( if any) would be cancelled out by results showing higher rates of cancer and from there faster growth of cancer in dogs with high cereal/carb diets.

My 2 dogs are on low carb, most carbs come from green veg cooked really well, high protein diets, their behaviours are fine although my little dog has a tendency to get hyper on carbs and just in general. For the first 2 and half years she had high cereal+dog food diet and she was nuts, ever since i switched to mainly protein she's a different dog.

I've also recently lost 2 dogs to cancer in the last 15months and when my first was diagnosed with cancer i did alot of research on nutrition and cancer plus from my own studies/knowledge when i was younger in both animal and sports nutrition, she was given weeks to live and i changed to an all protein diet and she managed to live more than 5months as the unoperable cancer slowed in growth alot which i believe was due to the diet.

ps I don't want to be so negative but alot of these so called tests can be done on animals in lab conditions or be coincidence with other factors playing a bigger part such as environment changes for dogs. Protein also triggers to the brain that it's full when is enough is consumed and wouldn't that actually put a dog at ease when it's not hungry.

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Re: Dogs Diet

Post by Warley on Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:00 am

Thanks for your post and I can see where you're coming from. The main reason we fed Archie Eukanuba was because the main ingredient was meat and because dogs are carnivores that is what they should be eating. Although to keep the meat in Eukanuba fresh and long lasting they have to put addatives and preservatives in it. I think its more these that help to fuel behaviour rather than the actual protein.

Speaking to our dog trainer yesterday he was telling us about how some dogs can be highly sensitive to these preservatives. He has working Australian Shepherd dogs as well as a couple of other collies. He, at one point, changed their diet and after a couple of weeks noticed that the Australian Shepherds would no longer work and his other collies were starting to have disputes with each other. He spoke to a breeder friend of his about how he had changed the dogs diet and she listed all the possible problems he could see in the dogs with that particular diet he has chosen. Dogs seemingly unwilling to work and increased aggression were some of the problems. He changed their diet back again and within a couple of weeks the dogs were back to normal.

Looking at the analysis of the Burns food it seems to be one of the better dog foods. The main ingredient is Brown Rice but then they use duck meat meal and chicken meal which is the actual meat rather than beaks, feet etc. My partner Paul is also wanting to look into the BARF diet but Im not too sure if that would work out to be really expensive as well as time consuming. Is it the BARF diet you use or another brand of dog food?

Even if nothing comes of it its worth giving it a shot. Im really interested to see if there are any changes in his behaviour and I'll keep you posted.
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Re: Dogs Diet

Post by milliemoo on Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:13 am

Hiya Guys,

i have a 4 year old staffordshire cross called Millie who has allergy issues, her main allergy issues lie with pollens which is a nightmare but Food has previously been a big issue for her.
We have tried multiple different brands of food from Burns to James Wellbeloved and ended up with a perscription food costing £75.00 per sack plus VAT!!!! Thankfully Millies allergies have settled down with age and we can now feed her Bakers which is a lot cheaper without causing her any issues at all Smile
The thing though out this condition that i have noticed is that none of the food available in shops actually states ALL the ingrediant - where ever you see the words 'animal derivatives' basically translates back to 'and anything else we can scrape of the floor' which is extremly dangerous for dogs like millie - and we do not always know dogs have these issues until something kicks it off as allergies can just appear in dogs like they can in humans!! i think we should all be fighting for all pet food suppliers to be stating every single item that goes into the foods - afterall we do this for our food so why should a dogs be any different???!!???
Millies behaviour seemed to be hyper when on the specialist foods in comparison to the Bakers so not only can it effect their health but i think it can contribute (can not say affect as it may be the discomfort of the allergies along side the actual food) to their behaviour - after all if you feed children items with E numbers in they may not get poorly but they may start bouncing off the walls - surley the same principle applies?
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Re: Dogs Diet

Post by Sean Benson on Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:11 am

Thats an interesting story , I wonder how it will go?

Could I just make one point here "none of the above is intended as accurate professional advice, it is the shared and combined experience of people on this forum - Unless categorically stated otherwise. A change in diet may cause harm as well as good in some cases. Please consult your vet if in any doubt.!

However it seems clear to me that Drabble needs to cut down the Protien intake dramatically!

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Re: Dogs Diet

Post by Warley on Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:33 am

Well itís been almost 3 weeks since the diet change and there is a definite difference in Archie's behaviour. When out on a walk he doesn't eye dogs up as much as he used to and the other day a dog, which has bitten him before, started to bark and growl at him. This normally would have started a full-blown kick off but instead I pulled him back and told him to leave it. He then continued to look at me for direction and ignored the other dog (he's never done this before in this type of situation). At dog training he only barked at 1 dog, which was kicking off, at his owner. He completely ignored all of the others including the Border terrier that was barking about 2 ft away from him and the Dogue de Bordeaux puppy that just wandered past him. This has also never been known before.

For the past two weeks we have taken him to my mums house so he can be with her 3 dogs. Normally we have to take them all for a walk together so they are tired before we can let them all off as Archie thinks they are going to attack him. Last week I decided we would just take Archie through, muzzle him and see how he reacts without a walk. We let one of mums dogs out at a time and there was only one slight scrap when Archie thought Ollie the Bichon was going to eat him Rolling Eyes Izzi the most dominant one out of mums lot wouldn't go anywhere near Archie but Jasper the most submissive was like Archie's little teacher.

Yesterday we went round again and muzzled Archie up. I told Paul to go and wait outside with Archie as I was going to let all 3 dogs out at once. Full pack against Archie. I let the dogs out of their cage and as I was on my way to the front door with them to let them out to see Archie I realised Paul had gone outside on his own (not sure why) and left Archie inside. Not a murmur from any of the dogs and just lots of sniffing bums and other doggy interactions. Muzzle came off straight away and it was a lovely afternoon. Izzi even decided she actually quite likes Archie and was interacting with him this week. She growled and snapped at him when he was getting a little too over animus with his sniffing of certain areas but he backed off without any retaliation.

I don't think the food has cured him by any means but I certainly think it has made him a little more easy going and more interested in looking to us to handle the situation rather than jumping in feet first. The rest of the Eukanuba has been given to the kennels so if some of the dogs down there start to be a little hyper you know what it might be Laughing

We're going to continue working on him as he is still not 100% perfect but we are certainly a lot further on than we were this time last year. Even the trainer commented on what a different dog he is now.

In 2 weeks time we are starting the field trials with him which will be fun as he loves tracking scents so that should be a good way to keep him occupied.
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Re: Dogs Diet

Post by Sean Benson on Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:05 pm

wow! interesting results.


this may be useful to know at the kennels for 'challenging dogs'.

Thanks Karlie

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